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Thank you Wall-E. I appreciate it!

Primeskuller hat geschrieben:Thank you Wall-E. I appreciate it!

No problem...my german isn't perfect but English is my thing!

wall-e hat geschrieben:Nothing is grammatically wrong with using the singular to refer to a full team in English. It is called a "collective plural", so it is possible and acceptable to say "Twister" and still use "Twister" for the plural also

Hi wall-e, I never doubted that, quite frankly I even said that refering to the whole team as Twister is absolutely correct.
But sticking to your examples, how would you call three players from let's say King College Tornado? Three Tornado or three Tornadoes?
Don't give me something like "three Tornado players".

That is the point in this thread not if Holzgerlingen as a team can call itself Twister. That ist without question!

Cheers

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:

wall-e hat geschrieben:Nothing is grammatically wrong with using the singular to refer to a full team in English. It is called a "collective plural", so it is possible and acceptable to say "Twister" and still use "Twister" for the plural also

Hi wall-e, I never doubted that, quite frankly I even said that refering to the whole team as Twister is absolutely correct.
But sticking to your examples, how would you call three players from let's say King College Tornado? Three Tornado or three Tornadoes?
Don't give me something like "three Tornado players".

That is the point in this thread not if Holzgerlingen as a team can call itself Twister. That ist without question!

Cheers

Ok, as we all know no language is perfect but in English if you decide to use the collective plural then you have to also figure out how you refer to the collective when it does something as a whole (easy example: "Crimson Tide win the National Championship") and then again when individuals within the collective do something (easy example: Three Crimson Tide running backs injured in one game"). Usually, you would do it just like that to avoid the disagreements on the grammar piece. Of course you would typically not see any one write or say "Three Crimson Tide played good" or "Five Cardinal suspended" because that just doesnt sound very intelligent. So if you are writing for the newspaper or something public I would say you need to break it out and use something like "3 Twister players" or "2 players from the Twister" etc so that it sounds right and then you don't have grammar disagreements.

Main thing to realize is that there aren't always hard rules when using the collective plural in a sentence.

The thing is that the problem only arises in German. In English one would refer to the players as e.g. "three Twister players". In German such a term is not commonly used at least not in everyday language. In German one would merely say "three Twister(s)". And here, at least from my sensation, the "s" is compulsive.

And that was also my original question, wether it is "three Twister" or "three Twisters". So far all the Twister players argued that it has to be "three Twister" which does sound a little awkward to me. I will respect their wish though and use the term anyhow.

To be honest, writing and thinking about "Twister or Twisters" I think I kind of got used to "three Twister" already.

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:The thing is that the problem only arises in German. In English one would refer to the players as e.g. "three Twister players". In German such a term is not commonly used. In German one would merely say "three Twister(s)". And here, at least from my sensation, the "s" is compulsive.

And that was also my original question, wether it is "three Twister" or "three Twisters". So far all the Twister players argued that it has to be "three Twister" which does sound a littel awkward to me. I will respect your wish though and use the term anyhow.

To be honest, writing and thinking about "Twister or Twisters" I think I kind of got used to "three Twister" already.

ohhhhhh ok well in that case if you want to be grammatically correct then you can't use the English rules to come to a sensible agreement on how to translate it in German. Basically if the concept of collective plural doesnt exist in german then you can't force it to make sense in German and the Twister will have to live with peple messing it up when they translate

So in german you can't say "drei Spieler aus dem Twister"?

wall-e hat geschrieben:

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:The thing is that the problem only arises in German. In English one would refer to the players as e.g. "three Twister players". In German such a term is not commonly used. In German one would merely say "three Twister(s)". And here, at least from my sensation, the "s" is compulsive.

And that was also my original question, wether it is "three Twister" or "three Twisters". So far all the Twister players argued that it has to be "three Twister" which does sound a littel awkward to me. I will respect your wish though and use the term anyhow.

To be honest, writing and thinking about "Twister or Twisters" I think I kind of got used to "three Twister" already.

ohhhhhh ok well in that case if you want to be grammatically correct then you can't use the English rules to come to a sensible agreement on how to translate it in German. Basically if the concept of collective plural doesnt exist in german then you can't force it to make sense in German and the Twister will have to live with peple messing it up when they translate

So in german you can't say "drei Spieler aus dem Twister"?

eher "drei Spieler der Twister"...
und so würde ich es auch sagen um die von gunnar angesprochene situation zu vermeiden, denn irgendwie klingt beides blöd: "3 Twister" und "3 Twisters"! meine meinung!
um ehrlich zu sein hab ich darüber auch noch nie nachgedacht, was uns stört ist eben wenn man uns als team "twisters" bezeichnet!

wall-e hat geschrieben:Basically if the concept of collective plural doesnt exist in german then you can't force it to make sense in German and the Twister will have to live with peple messing it up when they translate

I guess it does exist but is not commonly used.

lorenzo hat geschrieben:um ehrlich zu sein hab ich darüber auch noch nie nachgedacht, was uns stört ist eben wenn man uns als team "twisters" bezeichnet!

Das kann ich verstehen.
Was das "drei Twister(s)" betrifft, belassen wir es dabei, dass es eine ungeklärte schwierige Angelegenheit ist...

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:Was das "drei Twister(s)" betrifft, belassen wir es dabei, dass es eine ungeklärte schwierige Angelegenheit ist...

ich glaube damit können wir alle leben

lorenzo hat geschrieben:

wall-e hat geschrieben:

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:The thing is that the problem only arises in German. In English one would refer to the players as e.g. "three Twister players". In German such a term is not commonly used. In German one would merely say "three Twister(s)". And here, at least from my sensation, the "s" is compulsive.

And that was also my original question, wether it is "three Twister" or "three Twisters". So far all the Twister players argued that it has to be "three Twister" which does sound a littel awkward to me. I will respect your wish though and use the term anyhow.

To be honest, writing and thinking about "Twister or Twisters" I think I kind of got used to "three Twister" already.

ohhhhhh ok well in that case if you want to be grammatically correct then you can't use the English rules to come to a sensible agreement on how to translate it in German. Basically if the concept of collective plural doesnt exist in german then you can't force it to make sense in German and the Twister will have to live with peple messing it up when they translate

So in german you can't say "drei Spieler aus dem Twister"?

eher "drei Spieler der Twister"...

Nachdem ihr euch jetzt der Wahrheit schon stark angenähert habt und kurz davor seid es herauszufinden, löse ich dann mal auf

Es gibt zwei alternative Lösungen:

1.: "Drei Spieler des Twister haben gut gespielt"
2.: "Drei Spieler des Twisters haben gut gespielt"

Beides ist möglich. Je nachdem, ob man Twister in der Form des englischen "of the twister" oder des deutschen Genitivs ("des Twisters") verwendet.

Was natürlich auch noch ginge, wäre: "Drei Spieler von Twister haben gut gespielt".

Twister ist jedenfalls ein Kollektivbegriff für das ganze Team ("der Wirbelsturm"). Die Spieler sind zwar Elemente des Wirbelsturms, aber es wäre genau genommen ein Fehler sie als einzelne kleine Wirbelstürme zu bezeichnen. Deswegen ist "Drei Twister haben gut gespielt" oder ähnliches schon mal verkehrt.

Das ist alles analog zum Namen Galaxy oder Universe zu sehen. Da könnte man ja auch nicht sagen "Drei Galaxies oder drei Universes haben gut gespielt". Auch dort heißt es "Drei Spieler der Galaxy / des Universe haben gut gespielt" bzw. "Drei Spieler von Galaxy / Universe haben gut gespielt".

Je nachdem, ob man Twister in der Form des englischen "of the twister" oder des deutschen Genitivs ("des Twisters") verwendet.

Ich verfahre frei nach Jan Weiler nach dem Motto:
Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod!
"Drei Spieler vom Twister."
Dann gibts keine Probleme und mer het a bissl Dialekt mit drin...

Nicht zu verwechseln mit Twitter

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:

Je nachdem, ob man Twister in der Form des englischen "of the twister" oder des deutschen Genitivs ("des Twisters") verwendet.

Ich verfahre frei nach Jan Weiler nach dem Motto:
Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod!
"Drei Spieler vom Twister."
Dann gibts keine Probleme und mer het a bissl Dialekt mit drin...

Hehe, sehr schön, "vom Twister" geht natürlich auch

Prime hat geschrieben:2.: "Drei Spieler des Twisters haben gut gespielt"[/b] ... des deutschen Genitivs ("des Twisters") verwendet.

Anscheinend werde ich in diesem Fred einfach überlesen.

*Oberlehrermodusan*

Eigennamen werden nicht gebeugt!

*Oberlehrermodusaus*

Also heißt es bei der Verwendung des Genitivs auch
"Drei Spieler des Twister"!
Denn wir reden ja nicht von drei Wirbelwinden, sondern von drei Spieler vom Team der Holzgerlingen Twister.

Aber was mach ich hier eigentlich. Hab hier vor dem nächsten Jahr wohl nichts zu suchen.

Gunnar56 hat geschrieben:Ich verfahre frei nach Jan Weiler nach dem Motto:
Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod!

Oh Mann, jetzt wird es peinlich, Gunnar!

Das Buch ist vom Bastian Sick.

Jan Weiler hat z.B. "Maria, ihm schmeckt's nicht" geschrieben.