Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

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Am i the first ?
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Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Mo Okt 19, 2020 08:16

I want to raise a topic that I am currently working on a lot and that is Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE)
This is a brain disease that occurs in several contact sports such as ice hockey, mma, rugby and football.
It's caused by repeated blows to your head, it doesn't even require concussions.
I myself played in the 80s and 90s and unfortunately I also have several symptoms that can be attributed to CTE.
This disease was only discovered in the early 2000's after the death of Mike Webster, the Center of the Steelers. Many then followed, and after first fully opposing, the NFL reluctantly admitted there is a link between Football and brain damage.
Because I recognized many symptoms, I started to study this matter and realised that i had a mild form of CTE due to many years of Football ( and sone MMA, ice hockey, judo, kickboxing, street hockey and BJJ) and many documented concussions. I played football since i was 17 untill i was 35 year old on every level. This led to the eventual pledge (and acceptance thereof) to donate my brain after my death to the Concussion Legacy Foundation in the US, which works closely with Boston University. The aim of this brain research is to gain even more knowledge about the relationship between (amateur) football and CTE. I thought I had to contribute my bit.

I also started to think about my current position in football. I coach Linebackers. Are my players and the rest of the team aware of the risks they are taking? Do they understand that they may have to deal with unpleasant things such as memory loss, mood swings, behavioral problems  etc. for the rest of their lives just as i do ?
And do I want to be responsible for that if those players aren't at least informed?

I am very curious what you think of this matter and what your position in this is.
Do you have any knowledge of this and do you think the German leagua should at least inform all players so that they can make their own well thought decision ?
And when they make their decision afterwards that they still want to play, that's okay. They're adults and can make up their own mind ! But I don't think anyone wants to let someone play unaware of these risks.

So please let me know what your thoughts are about this topic. And any questions are welcome too !

Booya
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Booya » Mo Okt 19, 2020 13:05

Important topic.

I started playing in the early 90 for 12 years.
Mainly SS + FB and I always went head first into all contacts back then.

I have so far not heard from anybody in Germany having those symptoms.

I believe one of the reason is that we don't practice as much or often as people in the US are doing.
Hardly any team is able to practice more regularly more then 3 times a week and that also only for 2-3 hours.
Most teams practice only 2 times and often they have to deal with a high percentage of no-shows.

That leaves much more regeneration time after a heavy impact training session. Plus our players usually start much later with the sport.
Therefore do I believe that we don't have the same risk for CTE as players in the USA had.


But we still should take care and adopt to this risk and take the head more out of the game.
And that is also here in Germany happening ... somewhat at least.

I am a coach myself and have implemented in our club for all teams a more rugby based tackling style.
Which are our kids/players are now learning from day1.
I played Rugby for several years before moving to Football so this makes perfect sense for me.

The system is somewhat also based on the Head-Up initiative from the NFL and the HS Football association, which they copied from Rugby as well.
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Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Mo Okt 19, 2020 17:03

Booya ..

You often only notice the symptoms at a later age. I stopped when I was 35 and I am now 55. You also have to compare your behavior with the past, otherwise you will not be aware of the change. I haven't heard of anyone about it either but I can't be the only one. Had I not looked into it, I would have thought that these were character traits that belonged to me.
I used to have no mood swings or just got angry quickly, now it's different. If you are not aware of it, you may think it is a normal reaction of your character. And those people from your football area might think that too.
The number of times training is not that important and taking rest after the time does not make sense for your brain. Just like the NFL's Head Up program doesn't make much sense. The repeated blows to the head remain. You already get one when you fall to the ground and your helmet hits the ground..
Starting with football at a later age is good because the player is then called an adult. Then he can / may make his own choices. But under 18?

I understand that it is difficult and unknown, but everyone has the right to openness.
If everyone in my team could make a conscious decision to keep playing, I had no problem with that at all.
But don't know if I want to be responsible for guys who are oblivious.

Shouldn't the AFVD just provide good CTE / Braindamage information so that everyone can make an informed decision?

QB#83
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von QB#83 » Mo Okt 19, 2020 19:54

Since Football in germany is still a relatively young sport, there aren't many german cases yet.

The first QB of the german national team Erich Grau is pretty certain that he has it. He's 65 years old.
Thats the only german case I've heard from yet.

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Mo Okt 19, 2020 20:22

Yeah, I was already afraid of this. And these kind of cases will come more with the years.
That's why it' s important, I think, that there will be enough education about this so that everyone can make their well thought decision..

Booya
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Booya » Di Okt 20, 2020 11:12

The movie (Consussion) about this CTE topic was seen from quite a few people in Germany and started a discussion even outside our Footballworld here in Germany.

I don't know what actions did the AFVD took on a nationwide level but we did hold here in Hamburg a coaching clinic early this year with a high focus on new style tackling and why.
I did talked about this topic to the coaches who attended and gave guidance how to evaluate a possible concussion and what to do as an immediate reaction and when to allow the player to start again with practice.

But as you can get CTE also without ever having a concussion is the main point to reduce the head impacts overall.
Therefore is it key to plan your practice correctly and adjust the tackling and blocking style accordingly, hence was this the main focused I talked about.

But like said.. I have no clue what activities the AFVD is doing here.
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Beschwerden darüber bitte per PN an mich.

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Di Okt 20, 2020 16:19

Besides Concussion, "League of Denial" is also recommended. Can be found on YouTube by the way. Is about how the NFL has dealt with this issue. Speaking of the NFL ... It has already been established with high school players ... So you don't have to have played in the NFL for it ... So if it is possible there, it will happen in our amateur league too ...
And what you say is correct, you do not need a concussion for it, repeated blows to the head are the cause. And unfortunately no tackling/blocking style or that helps... The only thing that would help is not to play football, but that's not an option, nobody wants that.
But I am in favor of good and honest information so that everyone who is of age can make a good decision.

Maybe this topic should be raised with the league sometime ? Just to start a discussion, and who knows ?
That's also the reason i started this topic. 
Create insight and awareness and hope that people will think about it. Maybe trigger a change ...
Because my goal is not to stop football .. Football was my life! My goal is to get people  aware and ensure that they can make an informed decision.
And if they still wanna play football, i'm cool with that !
But at this moment i'm not sure they know..
And i wonder how many "Chris Borlands" are in our league playing the game...

Chris Borland:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Borland

Booya
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Booya » Di Okt 20, 2020 19:13

Am i the first ? hat geschrieben:
Di Okt 20, 2020 16:19

And what you say is correct, you do not need a concussion for it, repeated blows to the head are the cause. And unfortunately no tackling/blocking style or that helps... The only thing that would help is not to play football, but that's not an option, nobody wants that.
I disagree here, it is possible to tackle and block somebody without the usage of the helmet.
Is it 100% avoidable that you ever have hard contact with the helmet?
No, but you can drastically reduce the amount of blows to the head for both sides (Tackler and Ballcarrier) if you adjust your tackling and tackling drills correctly and therefore also reduce the risk.

Just look at Rugby.. They don't wear helmets and some of their hits are insane as well but they almost never use the head first.
Yes.. they also have some cases of CTE but to a much lower degree.
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Was ich schreibe ist, nur meine persönliche Meinung.
Beschwerden darüber bitte per PN an mich.

DarkMorgana2
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von DarkMorgana2 » Di Okt 20, 2020 19:50

As far as I know CTE can only be diagnosed with a 100% certainty after death.
But there are former football players that might have CTE. They played in the very early American Football days in the 80s.
Zuletzt geändert von DarkMorgana2 am Di Okt 20, 2020 21:49, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Di Okt 20, 2020 21:33

@ Booya...

No, contact and blows to the head will always be there in football. You can get the hard collisions (leading with the helmet) away but never the blows to the head. A header in soccer is already a blow to the head so i don"t have to explain have fast you get those in football.. Linemen who are blocking are using their head, a player falling to the ground, etc. etc.
These are all times when your head slows down quickly causing your brain to bump into the inside of the skull. This can be anything and does not necessarily have to be that hard hit to the head. A hard fall to the ground is enough ...
Above is enough to do damage in the long time....

It is true that there are also cases in Rugby because Rugby is one of the six risk sports mentioned.
I don't know the numbers for both sports, but I do know that of the 6, Football is the most risky and most researched.
But you can't compare these two sports, football is really more frontal than Rugby.

DarkMorgana2
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von DarkMorgana2 » Di Okt 20, 2020 21:55

Booya hat geschrieben:
Di Okt 20, 2020 19:13
Am i the first ? hat geschrieben:
Di Okt 20, 2020 16:19

And what you say is correct, you do not need a concussion for it, repeated blows to the head are the cause. And unfortunately no tackling/blocking style or that helps... The only thing that would help is not to play football, but that's not an option, nobody wants that.
I disagree here, it is possible to tackle and block somebody without the usage of the helmet.
Is it 100% avoidable that you ever have hard contact with the helmet?
No, but you can drastically reduce the amount of blows to the head for both sides (Tackler and Ballcarrier) if you adjust your tackling and tackling drills correctly and therefore also reduce the risk.

Just look at Rugby.. They don't wear helmets and some of their hits are insane as well but they almost never use the head first.
Yes.. they also have some cases of CTE but to a much lower degree.
I don't know the name of the movie. But the there is a short film about changing the way of tackling.

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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Di Okt 20, 2020 22:06

@ DarkMorgana2

Totally right. Can only be definitively determined post mortem. For the time being, you can only have a serious suspicion if you have the symptoms.

And yes, there will be more as I that become aware of their possible (mild) CTE at a later age and with current knowledge. I too played in the 80s and 90s..

DarkMorgana2
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von DarkMorgana2 » Mi Okt 21, 2020 17:41

Talking about CTE in Germany. Here is an interesting article
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/ameri ... -1.3456501

The AFCVBW is raising awareness about this amongst their coaches.

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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Mi Okt 21, 2020 22:10

Thanks for posting !

Very recognizable, how he tells about himself and about football of the past ....

Good article .. Although not only the concussions are the culprit. We must not think that if we prevent it, Football will be a safe sport! Of course these are bad hits if you are left with a concussion, but worse (or just as bad) are the repeated blows to the head !! I often miss that! Erich Grau's and my problems do not come from the concussions, they come from the years of getting blow to the head and the concussions!
And no, helmets do not help against this. I have previously explained what causes the eventual brain damage. (rapid slowdown of the brain which then collides with the inside of the skull) No helmet helps against that ....
But getting the head out of tackles and making "leading with the helmet" illegal is a good start!
But it pains me to read such a recognizable story from a football friend from the days ...

DarkMorgana2
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von DarkMorgana2 » Mi Okt 21, 2020 22:28

Am i the first ? hat geschrieben:
Mi Okt 21, 2020 22:10
Thanks for posting !

Very recognizable, how he tells about himself and about football of the past ....

Good article .. Although not only the concussions are the culprit. We must not think that if we prevent it, Football will be a safe sport! Of course these are bad hits if you are left with a concussion, but worse (or just as bad) are the repeated blows to the head !! I often miss that! Erich Grau's and my problems do not come from the concussions, they come from the years of getting blow to the head and the concussions!
And no, helmets do not help against this. I have previously explained what causes the eventual brain damage. (rapid slowdown of the brain which then collides with the inside of the skull) No helmet helps against that ....
But getting the head out of tackles and making "leading with the helmet" illegal is a good start!
But it pains me to read such a recognizable story from a football friend from the days ...
As I said many coaches are aware of it. Many clubs coach heads up and Seahawks tackling.

This is a video every coach should watch https://youtu.be/2lTlYi39S40

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