Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Alle anderen Teams mit Tackle Football
Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Do Okt 22, 2020 00:40

Sorry, but I don't want to insult you, but these will not remove the cause either. Reduce a little yes, but take away no ..
And that is really a utopia, conceived by people with different agendas ...
My main concern is for people to know what they are getting into after being fully and honestly informed of the real risks.
It's not about changing the sport for me ...

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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von KarlH » Do Okt 22, 2020 11:05

...I played linebacker with americans here in germany only for a little more than 4 years in the late 70s and early 80s until I had a motorcycle crash and had to quit football. My coach back then always insisted in "use your head!", it wasn't a good tackling until you went in head first and as hard as possible. I can't remember a lot of blows to the head, maybe this "lack" was caused by the position I played. The linemen definitely took more blows to the helmet. Maybe it's a position topic too? How about other "extreme" contact sports with less protection or more direct hits? The numbers in aussie rules football or boxing might give you a lot of ammunition?

But back to football, yes, I had several concussions, none of them caused by going in head first. most were caused by hitting the ground or getting a blind side hit myself, even by "friendly fire". To be honest, I guess I caused more than just a few concussions by tackling hard. No way to count that, your opponent wouldn't show you that you hit him hard as long as he could. On the hitting side of the tackling you are fully concentrated and have full body tension when making contact. the other one might not, especially if he doesn't see you coming. Declaring head first illegal protects mainly those that tackle, declaring helmet to helmet illegal protects both. How can you reduce the risk even more? Avoiding blows to the head is impossible when playing football. You can only quit playing to avoid that.

Looking back, how can you tell "getting old" from the consequences of tacklings 40 years ago? Might be a hard job to prove that any damage was caused by that or is even just related to it. You are absolutely right, anybody should be aware of the risk he is taking when playing football. But if someone told me back then, I would have played anyway. Young and dumb, believing that nothing could harm you. It's kinda like lung cancer and smokers, everyone thinks it will only hit the others...

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Do Okt 22, 2020 17:10

Well.. to my knowledge, football is the most risky sport of the list that are listed to cause braindamage the most. Braindamage wich can result in CTE. Those sports are Football, Rugby,, MMA, Icehockey, Boxing and Wrestling. By far Football is considered #1... And yes, off course you can have the same damage by for instance falling, skiing or whatever... And i agree that you can't get the head out of football. We have to deal with that.

When do you know ? I never knew. Erich Grau didn't know. But after CTE was discovered and the symptoms where getting know and we were getting older and were getting those symptoms too.. We, i at least could connect the dots...
I read into the subject and found so many similarities that i just had to be..

And if you wuld ask me if i would do it again, knowing what i know now ? To be honest.. Football brought me a lot, taught me a lot, made me another person. But i would at least have had the choice we never had. It's done, i can't give you an anwer..

Defensive Back
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von DarkMorgana2 » Fr Okt 23, 2020 23:05

Knowing that AF can cause CTE I think establish U10 tackle leagues isn't a good idea. Even U13 is too young for my liking.

But being aware of the risk and working on new rules to reduce the impact, things might get better. Some 30 years ago, AF was only cool when you heard the impact. People used their heads as weapons.

When you were dizzy you shook your head and went right in again. Today a lot of team's have a concussion protocol. Look up SCAT5.

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Sa Okt 24, 2020 10:49

Agree and you're absolutely right !
And in the "perfect world" they provide good information to all adults so that they can make a balanced decision for their (sporting) future ...

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Fr Okt 30, 2020 09:15

Well .. it looks like this topic is not really alive in Germany .. Too bad, because it's really important ..
Is it disinterest or are they being oblivious ?
I just hope everyone understands that no one is invincible and that it doesn't have to be the severe CTE you get later on, the daily "mild" symptoms can affect your private life and social career in later life.
And you don't have to be an old man for that, it starts far earlier ...

Defense Coordinator
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von skao_privat » Sa Okt 31, 2020 13:06

Es gibt meines Wissens nach Untersuchungen in diese Richtung an der Berliner Charité
Football 2.0

- Bleib doch mal locker
- Wann werden die GFL Pässe zentral und online ausgestellt?
- Jeder Mensch kann aus eigener Kraft fliegen. Er muß nur seinen Standpunkt verändern!

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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von landes » Mo Nov 02, 2020 14:52

Due to the lack of public relevance, football based reasearch in Germany obviously is lesser knowen than in the US. However I do believe, that Germans involved with football who are capable of seeing more in football, than a sport of violent collissions, have a basic understanding of the dangers involved.

Yet the in my experience, the problem rather lies in an abundance of players and coaches (and that is true espacially in the lower divisions), that are either ignorant of these findings or dismiss them because they are testosterone overflowing and think the only good football is a head-to-head collision style of football and tackling is the most important skill that any player needs to be able to do. Therefore it has to be practiced for at least one hour each practice, even the day before a game... Fun fact: This also happens in Ladys Football!
That the NFL/NCAA (and probably Highscholls) have strict limitations of the numbers of full paded practices per week/season sofar hasnt led to major changes in attitude with a lot of footballers in Germany.

Obviously there are people who want to change that and do care about new research findings, but I think they still are far outnumbered. Its probably not easy to get your hand on any good papers about dangers of football in Germany as well. So raising awerness is a good thing. But when you think about concussions and microtraumata, realising that there is virtually no disussion on the wide scale about the risks of headers in soccer (espacially in youth soccer), doesnt make me hopefull that there will be changes in AF in Germany coming soon.

Probably the fastest way to get an understanding for the risks of CTE and brain Damage, there would have to be mandatory seminars that everyone, who wants to coach in Germany would be requiered to attend. But for that you would need massiv support from the AFVD, and well... good luck with that.

By the way, in my opinion no kids under 16 should be allowed to play full contact football, but nobody cares about what I think :joint:
never argue with idiots - they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

MIB #65
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von MIB #65 » Mo Nov 02, 2020 19:34

All coaches in Baden-Württemberg had a really good speaker at the beginning of the season. She did her own doctorate in CTE. Was really interesting and brought a lot of new input.
No pain, no gain!

Grammatiknazi, der sich hin und wieder zu später Stunde auch mal einen Fehler gönnt.

Am i the first ?
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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von Am i the first ? » Mo Nov 02, 2020 21:39

@ Landes You're right that techniques in the lower divisions are hard to find, good football techniques i mean.. And that doesn't help at all.
Leaving paint on the other helmet is not proof of masculinity or proof of a perfect tackle. That idea was there for years and unfortunately, it still is here today...  And indeed, often in the lower leagues where the knowledge is hard to find. Let alone interest in these kinds of topics ... Many people still are oblivious ..
But even without the hard hits to the head, you run the risk of brain damage .. This can already happen with a "easy" practice ..
Whatever "tackling" technique is practiced (Head-up tackling, Seahawks tackling), damage will always be done ...
And yes, limiting padded practices always helps .. Simply because there are less repeated blows to the head. So do film meetings, position meetings, walk thru's etc ...

But no, I don't want to change Football. That is not necessary and i'm not looking for that. That won't even ever happen, even when i tried....
I don't really "want" anything. I just wondered what Germany knew about this and how they felt about it. And given my experiences, it seemed to me that it would be best to stop youth football (under 16? under 18?) And to inform each senior well and have them sign a statement...

But it is certainly not up to me to bring this to the AFVD .. Not in view of the moderate response to this topic ...
I don't want to become the AFVD's Bennet Omalu and be maligned in Germany ...

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Re: Braindisease CTE in Germany known ?

Beitrag von QB#83 » Di Nov 10, 2020 09:18

I think one of the bigger problems of the CTE situation is that even though the rules try to reduce the hits to head many coaches, players and refs are not. Every Team still has (at least) that 1 DB that always just tries to go for the nasty hit, many coaches still coach tackling technique that involves the helmet or let players with concussion symptoms back on the field and many refs are looking for any reason not to eject someone instead of following the rules ("Im Zweifel ist es ein Foul" bzw. "When in question, it is a foul").
I've had multiple discussions with refs in the 2019-2020 offseason where I heard things like "but look his shoulder touches the opponents shoulder for a little bit and afterwards hits the helmet (and knocks him out mid air) so i would say this hit was against the shoulder not the head". I wanted to adress this at the next ref license but then decided to stop being a ref for personal reasons so i wasn't there.